Taylor vs. Johnny

I was more than a little bemused by all the whining in Oilerdom yesterday that the “main stream media” were lavishing praise on Jonny Gaudreau while not giving Taylor Hall his due.

Here’s a sampling from Lowetide’s site:

  1. BÖÖK¡JEsays:

    The love for Gaudreau from these announcers is fucking annoying. Honestly, its like Hall doesn’t exist.

     

  2. G MONEYsays:

    “Guys just love playing with Johnny Gaudreau. He’s got such great hands, give him the puck, and he’ll find you.”

    Are you fucking kidding me?

    Never mind that Hall carried the puck all the way from the fucking D zone, made the zone entry, then passed to Gaudreau who had it for half a second before passing it back to Hall for the finish.

    Jeezus H Keerist.

  3. CENTRE OF ATTENTIONsays:

    böök¡je:
    The love for Gaudreau from these announcers is fucking annoying.Honestly, its like Hall doesn’t exist.

    Hall back checked and stole the puck creating that break away.

    But Gaudreau gets the love for a couple tap passes.

  4. CENTRE OF ATTENTIONsays:

    G Money,

    Hall back checked and created that turn over to get the break away.

    That goal was all his.

    Meanwhile, Dubnyk with a big fumble and Sedin just kind of pushes it in there.

    Hall had a very nice game and so did Johnny but that begs the question, since this was a 3 on 3 tourney, which player is better in the overtime format?

    As luck would have it, Ryan Lambert of Puck Daddy has an extensive post on just that subject this morning and, as you can see below, it’s not even close.

    f0696cf0-c8f2-11e5-9589-3f747669dc7e_sdfasfsdfasd

    “This is clearly a guy who is considerably better than everyone at just about everything to do with 3-on-3 play. The three guys in front of him in goals, by the way, are shooting 100 percent (Vlad Namestnikov), 75 percent (Jordan Staal), and 43 percent (Jonathan Toews), and you probably make the argument that only Toews — with a similar number of minutes played and only two fewer shots — has a relatively sustainable number in that regard. Namestnikov is 2 for 2 in OT, and Staal is 3 for 4. They’ve also played far fewer actual minutes than Toews or Gaudreau.”

    Obviously there is no further debate about this but there were also some “in game” comments over at Lowetide that Hall is better defensively but the available evidence does not support that and, in fact, the opposite may be true.

    GAON/60

    Hall – 2.81

    Gaudreau – 2.96

    ONSV% 

    Hall – .902

    Gaudreau – .898

    PDO

     

    Hall – 995

Gaudreau – 993

What we see here is that, while Hall has a marginal difference in GA/60, Hall has been the beneficiary of slightly better goaltending.

At evens, Hall is faring better but, considering how dominant Gaudreau is in OT, his team is benefitting in huge measure from his special skills in a very important segment of the contemporary game.

P/60 5V5

Hall – 2.73

Gaudreau – 2.26

As we head into the final stretch, it will be fascinating to watch which player will surpass the other in the final scoring standings.

As it sits….

PPG

Gaudreau – .979

Hall – .960

It’s worth noting that neither player scores much on the road…

Hall has 15 road games left while Gaudreau has 18 so, perhaps Hall has the advantage but anyone suggesting there is much of a difference between these 2 players is a homer.

 

Advertisements

23 thoughts on “Taylor vs. Johnny

  1. The Gaudreau thing was a specific gripe to highlight a more general complaint. Oiler fans are not upset the media loves Johnny more than Taylor. They are upset that the media hates everything Oilers as a blanket policy.

    I think for Oiler fans, the all star game was a bit of a mixed bag of both real bias against anything Oilers, and the uncomfortable knowledge that Gaudreau is really good. It doesn’t change the fact that the talking heads, whenever talking about anything Oilers, have a hard time hiding their disdain. The first overall picks and the Connor win cut deep obviously, but for an Oiler fan, it’s become an exercise in patience having to listen them.

    As far as Jonny vs Hall?

    The chemistry between the two during the game was undeniable. Both were on the ballot for MVP.

    I have no problem giving Gaudreau the title 3 on 3 king for now. The sample size for 3 on 3 is still pretty small and I have no doubt coaches will within the next season or two learn to suck the joy out of the format all together. These metrics will change substantially in the short term.

    Like

    1. I don’t think any of that is true.

      The media doesn’t “hate” the Oilers…they just see them as irrelevant after all those top 10 picks.

      Pretty tough to argue with that.

      The Oilers willingly get respect when they earn it.

      They aren’t even close.

      Like

      1. So! I’m reading this thinking both players are pretty damn good……

        I think Todd deserves a tone of credit.

        By eye.

        The Oilers are in more games, play harder, play for each other and don’t seem to be lost as much.

        I hate to say it but if the Oilers get one of those Finnish kids preferably Laine, you can move Eberle for some D-help.

        Clear some of that dead cap space and take a run at Hamonic.

        I’m thinking this is the Oilers last year out of the playoffs.

        That’s something I haven’t said in a decade……boy oh boy.

        Like

        1. Way too early to make a call on next season since, not only do we not know how successful Chia will be fixing the D, we also don’t know what other teams in the WC will do.

          I agree both players are very good, I just get annoyed by those who claim Hall is significantly better.

          He isn’t.

          Like

  2. Irrelevant is exactly the word. When you factor in arrogant 5 cups 30 years ago management/fanbase, the Oilers become insufferable. It’s still hard to fathom that McDavid ended up there.
    I would take Hall over Gaudreau though. But there’s 40 players I’d take over both anyways.

    Like

      1. My Nucks are transitioning. The last few years have been wasted, but management didnt/couldn’t blow it up after so many years of dominance. They will be back at the top in 3 years. Oilers might be great also then. The problem with the Oilers is that they should be winning now. McDavid will cost say 15 mil a year in 2.5 seasons. Good luck icing a competitive team with that contract/coupled with Chias bad contract signings.
        In my opinion the Oilers will never sniff at the cup again. NHL has moved on from that. As for McDavid. You got him, enjoy him when he’s there. I suspect it won’t last longer than 4 years or so

        Like

  3. I think you forgot to mention. Gaudreau doesnt score on the road. Like at all. In a recent post you hammered on Hall getting less points on the road where the opposition can focus on him, but you forget to mention that Gaudreau produces 50% of Halls production on the road. And he has a very good d-corps to get him the puck. And now above you are telling us that a lot of Gaudreaus production is during Bettman 3v3 time. Johnny Hockey this year is -11 on the high danger scoring chance battle and has 37 individual high danger scoring chances, which is an improvement since last year when he got his teeth kicked in at -46 but did have 61 individual high danger scoring chances. And that being on a playoff team. Hall this year is +10 and 68 highdanger scoring chances and last year was -25 and 54 high danger scoring chances in 50 games. BTW Hall is leading the league in high danger scoring chances this year, and the first year I though he has been a very good player. He is not as good as Benn who I told you years ago was the best left winger in the league but he is catching up. Both Gaudreau and Hall are fantastic talents but Halls is at least for now the better player.

    Like

    1. High danger scoring chances don’t matter much if you can’t finish.

      Hall is on pace for under 30 goals this season and, as Draisaitl’s production drops toward average, Hall’s point production is dropping as well.

      As I mentioned in my post, neither Hall or Gaudreau scores much on the road but Gaudreau’s supremacy in 3 on 3 certainly more than makes up for the difference between the 2.

      Like

      1. No. It doesn’t. You may get 75 minutes total 3v3 time for the whole team for the season just over one road game so Gaudreau producing at 50% of Halls road production isn’t nowhere near close. High danger scoring chances are what makes Benn the best LW in the league. Hall lacks elite finish but Gaudreau doesn’t do squat without easy home ice matchups and he gets some very good defensemen giving him the puck. Plus being as you’ve stated that Draisatl is Joe Colborne than he is a detriment to Halls numbers

        Like

          1. Second tier talents?

            So then Gaudreau is a second tier talent?

            Draisaitl has one of the best 5×5 numbers in the NHL, Hall has been in the top ten in scoring in the NHL all season.

            You can call that second tier, but it sound like it’s Talisker induced talking my friend.

            Like

  4. You have also conveniently left of that Gaudreau gets almost an extra minute of PP time a game over Hall. Thats right Gaudreau is top 10 forwards in PP time a game, Hall isnt in the top 50. Gaudreau is a good player, don’t get me wrong, he is an absolute Gem where he was found, but I dont pick him over Hall or Draisatl.

    Like

    1. Way too early to know the Draisaitl story.

      He rode a 30+ shooting percentage early to some eye popping numbers but has been sliding considerably.

      And, it appears he and Hall are pretty equal although they contribute in different ways.

      Like

  5. Plus High quality chances per 20 at just 3v3 is such a limited stat due to small sample size. Getting back to back scoring chances will boost this stat through the roof cause most players dont play more than a couple minutes every few games. He has 3 overtime goals, and isnt even the leader in the category. He is tied with Philly Ghost who has done it in 40% less games and is a defenseman. He has one more overtime goal than Sekera. So I wouldn’t get that excited.

    Like

  6. One final thought here…

    Let’s remember that Gaudreau is only 22 years of age while Hall is 24.

    Gaudreau is in his second NHL second while Hall is in his sixth.

    As of tonight, Gaudreau is scoring at a 1PPG pace and is on pace for 35 goals.

    Hall has never scored 30 goals in a season.

    Like

  7. How’s dem Canucks doing DSF? You can’t keep moving the goal posts. You’re a Canucks fan, end of story. Maybe we should rag on your Bo Horvat is better than Draisaitl rant? Why don’t you tell us again how great of a two way player Horvat is with his minus 24 rating.

    And about those Stanley Cups? No wonder you’re a bit sour and feel the need to poke fans of other teams.

    Folks don’t let DSF take players from Random teams (Seguin, Benn, Johnny Hockey, etc) and let try and use those players to make the Oilers players look poor. Not hard when you can cherry pick stats from players on 29 other teams and compare them to the Oilers.

    Like

    1. Of course, virtually none of what you say is true.

      As for Horvat…the kid has been thrown into the deep end this season with both Henrik Sedin and especially Brandon Sutter missing for stretches but he’s done okay.

      6 goals and 12 points in his last 11 games.

      True story.

      Like

  8. Horvat -3 last night against the flames and now -27 on the season. The Canucks should consider sending him to the AHL for the remainder of the year. He’s not learning when he’s fishing the puck out his net so often. Nothing wrong with some development time in the A.

    Like

Leave a Reply

Fill in your details below or click an icon to log in:

WordPress.com Logo

You are commenting using your WordPress.com account. Log Out / Change )

Twitter picture

You are commenting using your Twitter account. Log Out / Change )

Facebook photo

You are commenting using your Facebook account. Log Out / Change )

Google+ photo

You are commenting using your Google+ account. Log Out / Change )

Connecting to %s